Question for PM stuff, AC model

[mmakela]

I wanted ask this much earlier, here it goes.

Because there seems to be everlasting discussion about how
every new updates works with everyones aircraft models and
their hardware ... could PM put the same aircraft models in
their site that they use in their test systems. This could help so much
here. At least everyone has a model that propably causes no
problems. There is a model in their site, which is 319 for which there
is no system at all.
Just a thought.

[blueskydriver]

This is a good idea. It would be nice to have the models for FSX and/or FS9 that they're using, then I could verify what is or is not working according to a benchmark if you will...

In fact, in the other postings regarding this and the issue with PMDG; how about someone saying which (exactly) the model you're using in FSX/FS9(yes, I know panel.cfg=views only), which CDU Aircraft data file (or txt file) are you using (is it default PM, like 737-700 or are you using one of the older files from the PM site, like the PMDG B737-700 by Bob Scott), and are you saying that PM works in FSX with default B737-800 (for boeing) and if not, what model is being used as the -800 or even 700 (since it's not a default).

John

[JonathanRichardson]

Hi

This is not possible I'm afraid for various reasons. I do understand the desire for this, but models are tailored to hardware and specific system set-ups any way (especially the ones used here). There is also a large amount of time and interlectual property in their development (like all software) and it is not possible to distrubute this freely or via sales due to the open nature of MSFS airfile / model system.

Regards
Jonathan Richardson

[blueskydriver]

Can you suggest a good model for FSX and it's corresponding PM Aircraft.txt (CDU), thank you.

John

[JonathanRichardson]

Hi

I have no knowledge with models that both work and work well with FSX & PM I'm afraid. I'm sure others will have advise here.

Regards
Jonathan Richardson

[Rodney]

John,
I have used the Kitty Hawk 737-800 with PM and find the flight model very good.

[dcutugno]

What's the problem using the PMDG FS9 model on FSX? it works fine...

[mmakela]

Just curious, someone in PM has done airbus
updated so there must be at least one model
being used. I doubt it is illegal to say what it
is?

[JonathanRichardson]

Hi

For Airbus, you can use the IFDG A319 model, which is avialable for download from the Updates / latest section of our website. This is a freeware model and I have tested this model, it is considered not to have any known airfile related problems, so it should work fine with PM on a technical level. Hope this helps.

Regards
Jonathan Richardson

[mmakela]

May I ask why it is A319 model in PM site only
considering PM has no 319 in MCDU? Can I use
A320 sys with A319 aircraft?

[JonathanRichardson]

May I ask why it is A319 model in PM site only
considering PM has no 319 in MCDU? Can I use
A320 sys with A319 aircraft?

From memory, I think we were told by IFDG this is one of the better models to use rather than the A320. But they do a A320 as well so you can try and compare... Note we don't support or supply airfiles/models - it is just something that cropped up through a contact with IFDG nothing more than that.

Regards
Jonathan Richardson
Project Magenta

[michelmvd]

Hi,

I think, this always has been one of the biggest problems with MSFS for cockpit builders or people who like to fly as real as it can in a simulator.
Default airfiles aren't really a replica of the real world. B747's are behaving as F16's or C172's depending on the situation ;), because MS like to offer their simulator "game" to a haul range of customers and so the planes must be easy to fly.
Only in serious addon's you can find more correct airfiles. A real good airfile is the PMDG B747-400, but it's only working in relation with the PMDG software. According real life pilots it is coming close to the real one. Unfortunetaly if you use it with PM or other software, then it's also coming out of control. FS models are all derivates of the general aviation airfiles and C/G and other important items aren't correctly simulated.

Making an airfile is , as Jonathan said, a very complicated item and it's normal that the efforts and knowledge are protected by their developpers. You also need correct performances tables and related info by the manufacturer in order to do so.

What the B747-400 concerns their is an acceptable airfile programmed by Pedro Oliviera, this one is free and can be found on Flightsim.com, but also this one is far from a replica of the real behavior. Once you flew with the PMDG, or on a real level-d B747 simulator, you will know what I'm talking about.



B. Rgds
Michel

[pdpo]

Hi there,

I just wanna pop into this discussion. Some long time ago I had good communication with Enrico and he worked on the airbus suite. One of the issues I had in the problem list that time was that the plane was oscilating a lot during open climb mode. Enrico modified the handling of the plane and together with the FCU update he also put this A319 model on his site. That model was climbing that moment without almost any oscilation.
In the mean time I am using project airbus model with a somewhat tweaked a320.txt file but this tweaking is still ongoing since some problems popped up with it which Enrico did not react on yet. I find as well the IFDG, as well the Project Airbus nice A320 models. The advantage (I find) of the PA model is that is has gotten a very good load and balancing. If you compare the cfg files you will see that the load stations on ifdg are located on the gravity point, meaning that loading the plane does not change the balance. PA does this nicer. A disadvantage is that the PA model does not have exterior lights (strobe, beacon..)
A problem with PM and both models is that when the balance is shifted aft the oscilations during the climb become bigger. If you load the plane very much (unrealistic) to the front somehow PM can handle it better and the oscilations become less and the plane (handled by PM) becomes much more stable.

Just my 2 cents peter

[JonathanRichardson]

Hi

IFDG changed one or two minor things in their A319 model, for us and that is the one we posted. It was already a good model, just we had to get a couple of small changes. We did not change it ourselves.

The oscilations are normally down to the flight model stability at high altitude. It is a bit chicken and egg, what can be changed re the PM side v the flight model side. Also, the FCU has a FBW function which can cause this as well - you could also try and use EasyFBW or something if you want FBW pitch and bank hold in FS9 (although I actually never tested that with the FCU). Certainly loading can cause / help to resolve this type of problem.

One thing for sure, it is not possible to accomidate all the different flight models. If you find / obtain a good flight model - everything will be very stable, stick with it is my advice. The best AP in the world on the real a/c won't cope if the weight and balance is wrong, the wing is the wrong shape, or the thrust moment is in the wrong place etc, there are hundreds of factors that dramatically change the way things behave. The FCU and the MCP will try and 'learn' to some degree any dramatic errors thrown at it from the flight model, but there are limits to this. Best is to flight test and get to a good model and move on from there.

Regards
Jonathan Richardson
Project Magenta




Hi there,

I just wanna pop into this discussion. Some long time ago I had good communication with Enrico and he worked on the airbus suite. One of the issues I had in the problem list that time was that the plane was oscilating a lot during open climb mode. Enrico modified the handling of the plane and together with the FCU update he also put this A319 model on his site. That model was climbing that moment without almost any oscilation.
In the mean time I am using project airbus model with a somewhat tweaked a320.txt file but this tweaking is still ongoing since some problems popped up with it which Enrico did not react on yet. I find as well the IFDG, as well the Project Airbus nice A320 models. The advantage (I find) of the PA model is that is has gotten a very good load and balancing. If you compare the cfg files you will see that the load stations on ifdg are located on the gravity point, meaning that loading the plane does not change the balance. PA does this nicer. A disadvantage is that the PA model does not have exterior lights (strobe, beacon..)
A problem with PM and both models is that when the balance is shifted aft the oscilations during the climb become bigger. If you load the plane very much (unrealistic) to the front somehow PM can handle it better and the oscilations become less and the plane (handled by PM) becomes much more stable.

Just my 2 cents peter

[kenlie_no]

An A320 is the same aircraft logic vise as an A319.

Airbus make their aircrafts so its an "easy" transfer from the various models.

know one and know the whole family. 319,320 and 321.