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4EVERCooL
09-18-2008, 10:57 PM
Ok, I've gotta get things moving on my future 767 pit. I decided to begin with 2d/3d modelling of what I want to get. I live in a small flat, which is rented, so obviously I don't have much room to build a complete shell. That's why I think I'm going for a wood-metal furniture-like cockpit that sometimes shows up at this site in the upper right corner. I chose bCAD - a software for furniture design, I think it has everything for this task. I want to design it the way, that some day when I have a garage or just much room I could build a shell around this structure. However I am stuck at the first step - which materials to choose? The overall "frame" structure is more or less clear, that could be 1,5 - 2 cm pressed wood like that used in computer tables. But what about the MIP? Should it be plywood, or better a piece of metal? What is the painting or covering technique for such wooden constructions? What about the overhead? Please, anyone who have setups similar to what I'm planning to make share your pictures and techniques you utilized. I will post the drawings as soon as I will be getting them. Thanks in advance! ;)

Michael Carter
09-18-2008, 11:18 PM
I wouldn't use the pressed wood. It doesn't hold screws well along the edges, but it does glue easily. Though not a good idea if you have to disassemble it to move.

Plywood is used by most home builders for the MIP stand. Some commercial products are made from steel or aluminum.

Plastic, aluminum, and wood have all been used for the MIP.

Wood is lighter than plastic, but heavier than aluminum for the same size sheet. Metal and plastic is harder to work with without the proper tools. Wood is easier to work but harder to finish, but can be made to look like aluminum with proper preparation.

A laminate of .030" plastic over wood or .009 aluminum over wood is also a possibility if you'd rather not go to the trouble of preparing the wood for paint.

4EVERCooL
09-19-2008, 12:02 AM
BSW, thanks a lot for the laminate hint!

Regarding pressed wood - I thought of using it only for the box-like frame, connecting the pieces with those thick and long tightening screws without glue. That would allow to disassemble the structure easily, like plain furniture. Do you think solid wood would be better for that?

warvet
09-19-2008, 01:08 AM
4ever yup only use pywood bro press or particle board is crap. Like Michael said Plywood, and Sintra PVC plastic these are the best for what your doing. Also you can use textured Sintra PVC Board it cuts like plywood but has a beautiful finished look and comes in difft colors and textures.
http://store.foamboardsource.com/sintra-pvc-foam.html

Tim

Michael Carter
09-19-2008, 09:09 AM
Another possibility that is easy to work and finish is a Luan wood laminate over the plywood used for the MIP.

Luan is typically used as underlayment over the subfloor before carpeting or tile is laid. It's very thin and light, but also very smooth with few imperfections.

A couple of coats of body glaze and then sanded smooth and sealed with get a very slick surface.

I'd use the plastic or aluminum laminate myself. A bit more work initially, but virtually no finish work required except a light sanding and primer coats.

I was using the plastic laminate for a test MIP before I gave up and bought a real MIP. I had great difficulty getting the gauge cutouts in the correct positions.

fweinrebe
09-19-2008, 10:45 AM
Wood is lighter than plastic, but heavier than aluminum for the same size sheet. Metal and plastic is harder to work with without the proper tools. Wood is easier to work but harder to finish, but can be made to look like aluminum with proper preparation.

A laminate of .030" plastic over wood or .009 aluminum over wood is also a possibility if you'd rather not go to the trouble of preparing the wood for paint.

I have plywood pedestals which I need to paint cockpit green. The real PC9 has these pedestals made from aluminum. What would you recommend to do to get the painted wood look like it was painted over aluminum? In other words give it a metal feel? Or is it what you meant by a "a very slick surface"?

Michael Carter
09-19-2008, 11:00 AM
You can either use the fill and sand method described above if the grain is fairly tight, or you could laminate it with .009 aluminum roof flashing.

You repeat the process of filling the wood grain and sanding using finer grits up to about 400-600 and then sealing the wood with a sanding sealer and finish sanding with 600.

The aluminum laminate is a lot less work and gives you the real surface to finish.

4EVERCooL
10-03-2008, 03:16 AM
Thank you all, off we go. Started drawing things, took Ian Cameron's tutorial as base. :) BTW, does anybody know if Ian ever finished or had any progress with his installation, his site does not work... Would highly appreciate if anybody showed me other pictures of his pit. Thanks in advance.:roll:

andarlite
10-03-2008, 09:31 AM
Thank you all, off we go. Started drawing things, took Ian Cameron's tutorial as base. :) BTW, does anybody know if Ian ever finished or had any progress with his installation, his site does not work... Would highly appreciate if anybody showed me other pictures of his pit. Thanks in advance.:roll:

Yes, Ian did finished and has one of the nicest 767 cockpit that I have seen. If you join up with the 767homecockpitbuilder group on Yahoo, you can see pictures of his cockpit along with many others. Here's the link:

http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/b767homecockpitbuilders/

Regards,
Henry

4EVERCooL
10-08-2008, 06:24 AM
Thank you, andarlite!

This helped me :)

4EVERCooL
10-13-2008, 06:50 AM
Drawing going further. Still need some angular dimensions, such as central window post angle related to a horizontal plane and side windows' posts angles. Simpits pics do not show this. Does anybody have this info, or can measure in a real aircraft? Would highly appreciate :)

Michael Carter
10-13-2008, 08:59 AM
The #2 window pillar is 90 in relation to the sidewall brace running diagonally down the side of the cockpit wall.

This is around 20+/- from the vertical. Someone with a real aircraft shell can give a closer figure. Mine was mostly guesswork and extrapolation.

That angle (whatever it is) continues up through the #5 eyebrow window aft frame.

IIRC the forward #2 window pillar and the center pillar is 45. Possibly less.

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h146/boeing722/cockpit045.jpg

4EVERCooL
10-14-2008, 12:02 AM
IIRC the forward #2 window pillar and the center pillar is 45. Possibly less.



Thank you Michael!

Do you mean that the angle shown on the attached picture is 45 if I understood you correct?

Michael Carter
10-14-2008, 12:39 AM
Yes. It looks somewhat less because the camera distorts the image. It still may be a little less than 45. Maybe 40.

fweinrebe
12-22-2008, 01:59 AM
You repeat the process of filling the wood grain and sanding using finer grits up to about 400-600 and then sealing the wood with a sanding sealer and finish sanding with 600.


I tried it and it does looks like metal after this. Thanks for the advise. :)

Michael Carter
12-22-2008, 08:34 AM
Glad I could help. ;)