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Web
09-13-2008, 08:02 AM
I know it isn't pretty, but perhaps you'll enjoy this:

Joyrider Demo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXIZcWr_iNk)

Web

Trevor Hale
09-13-2008, 10:06 AM
Great stuff Web,

After looking at the video, I can see you have put a lot of effort into that. I used the first generation of basic stamp in my Grade 9 electronics class, 16 years ago. Wow. I wouldn't have thought they still had them around.

It appears that after your in a bank and returning to level flight, the joyrider has a bit of a delay returning to center, are you going to be able to modify this, or is this a limitation of the way the stamp is interfaced to the software?

Thanks for showing us.

Trev

Web
09-13-2008, 03:44 PM
Thanks, Trev. This might be annoying to people but I'll say again that this project was my attempt to reproduce what several others had already invented and displayed on the web. Having said that, Ian Hopper's software that gets the motion data from the sim (Falcon AF in this case) was tuned to lengthen the washout time in the modification that I use. I think this reduces the speed with which the rig recovers from positional changes. I have since started to change that parameter back to its default to hasten the recovery. However, there is no question (having flown it and having seen the video) that the apparent lag between joystick/onscreen movement and the physical movement of the rig is not particularly offputting when in the cockpit. It seems that (for instance) if I am climbing and physically pitched back, then if I push the stick forward, the rig starts pitching forward only when the flight path marker is actually pointing down. It feels right.

Web

BlackWidow
09-13-2008, 04:23 PM
Thats really cool. It must be a blast to fly it and really feel the sensation of movement. Good Job.

Do you have any plans in the future to refine the look of your Joyrider?

Web
09-13-2008, 05:30 PM
BlackWidow,
The motion is cool, and I have enhanced that by adding an Aura Interactor (http://apple2.org.za/gswv/a2zine/GS.WorldView/Resources/A2GS.NEW.PRODUCTS/Sound.Interactor.html). It's a vest but I don't wear it. I have it strapped to the outside back of the seat and I have interposed a "sheet" of about 8 wired together 1" PVC pipes each about 1' long. The pipes act as resonators. I have 1/2 of the sound card output going to the Aura (The other half goes to the speakers in the normal manner.) which turns that output into vibration and shakes the whole joyrider like a bass shaker. I use a second sound card attached to my headphones for voice comms. The vibration makes a big difference and improves the whole effect.

As far as improving the look, things are already pretty cramped in the cockpit and clearly there is only so much weight that the motors will handle. I don't know how much more I can add.

Web

TronicGr
09-14-2008, 12:44 AM
Hi Web,

Any news from the new modified firmware that I have send you? I really like to know if the extra buttons "Step in" and "Neutral position" worked for you, and if there was difference in motion response (lag) with the "faster" firmware...

Great Job! Have nice flights!


Regards, Thanos

AndyT
09-14-2008, 03:36 AM
Very nice job! How about some pix of the motors and controllers.

warvet
09-14-2008, 04:50 AM
Well after discussing the concept quite abit with my wife Martha, we have decided to build 2 of these and attach projectors to them. 1 for her and 1 for me. This way we can fly together or against each other on the net or a Lan connect, when we have nothing else to do or just want to spend time together, shes super excited about it already :) well probably be running Lomac Modern Air Combat as well as FS9 FSX and a series of other software. This should be a fantastic project and I'll let ya know how it pans out.

Regards
Tim

AndyT
09-14-2008, 06:39 AM
I knew you could'nt stay away for long...

So. Are you going to build 2 single seaters or a pair of 2 seaters?

Web
09-14-2008, 08:14 AM
Thanos- I hooked things up yesterday afternoon and found that as soon as I engaged the battery power (with both switches set to "off" and the angle set to 20) the rig banked to the right and stayed there. Flipping the switches did not seem to change anything. Perhaps the connections are incorrect, I'll check them today. I did change the angle to 200 since it actually needs to bank to the left for me to be able to get into it. I restarted it and, though it still was not responsive to the switches and banked when power was engaged, the 200 setting had it bank to the proper side.
I was, therefore unable to test that bit of software during flight. However, I did take the version that I had been using and which I had sent to you and took out all of the debuging lines with asterisks and tried that briefly. I don't think I saw too much of a difference in speed.

AndyT-I will put up pics of the motors.

warvet-Wow! His 'n Hers rigs. You're going to have a problem finding pink PVC pipe, though.

Web

Padraig
09-14-2008, 03:55 PM
Nice indeed, I hope you have it fitted with airbags just in case something goes wrong, just kidding,

So what kind of motors are you using ? are they from electric window motors ?

About the software, is it simulator specific ? or does it detect joystick movement only ?

Looks like alot of fun, I am a Falcon and LOMAC fan my self, my favorite aircraft is the SU25 Frog foot, this type of motion system is perfect for that A10 and the aircraft I like.

To be honest, If I were to build this device, I would not use a projector but a big screen.

I am sure you have seen this before, but have a look at this device if you haven't already seen this vid on youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1iEtjs6S80&feature=related

I think when you sit in and use this device, you surely come out with a few bruises plus have a med kit handy.

regards

Web
09-14-2008, 09:15 PM
Padraig-Airbags would be a nice touch. The motors are automobile windshield wiper motors that I tore out of cars in a junkyard. Considering how rusty and decrepit the cars looked, I was surprised all of the motors worked. The battery is an Exide Deep Cycle Marine Battery. The software is simulation specific and reads velocity changes. It does not follow stick movement. I believe that is why it looks laggy on the video.

Web

Paul G
09-14-2008, 09:40 PM
Web,

Where did you get the 5 point harness? I'm looking for one for my fighter jet sim, and have been scouring ebay.

Thank you

Paul

Web
09-14-2008, 10:22 PM
This guy had a set of two belts for auction or sale on ebay. I e-mailed him to see if I could buy just one. By the time he got back to me, the auction was over but he told me he would sell me one at half the price that the two went for. I payed him through paypal and he UPS'd the belt to me:

http://www.manta.com/coms2/dnbcompany_f4gts5

This site gives you info about his company.

Good Luck,

Web

Web
09-14-2008, 10:31 PM
Thanos-I e-mailed you but I'll tell you here as well..I redid the connection on the Basic Stamp and the "step in" utility worked fine. I did retain the angle change to 200 so it would bank to the left rather than the right. I will try the "neutral" utility the next time I fly and get blown up. Thanks so much.

Web

Padraig
09-15-2008, 09:32 AM
Padraig-Airbags would be a nice touch. The motors are automobile windshield wiper motors that I tore out of cars in a junkyard. Considering how rusty and decrepit the cars looked, I was surprised all of the motors worked. The battery is an Exide Deep Cycle Marine Battery. The software is simulation specific and reads velocity changes. It does not follow stick movement. I believe that is why it looks laggy on the video.

Web

Thanks for letting me know which motors you were using. Either way, you done a real fine job !

IanH1960
09-15-2008, 01:14 PM
The software is simulation specific and reads velocity changes. It does not follow stick movement. I believe that is why it looks laggy on the video.

Web

Hi All,

A quick clarification regarding the motion driver software.

The software reads flight data directly from F4's "shared memory" area. It normally uses aircraft acceleration data to generate force cues, however with the settings Web is using in the video the acceleration effects are almost completely removed and the driver output is programmed to follow aircraft pitch and roll angles directly and without any washout. The time delay between the roll / pitch motion occurring in the sim and the corresponding data output from the motion software is less than the processing loop time of the software which is roughly 50 ms.

Getting data out of the PC fast isn't too much of a problem - usually the tricky bit is getting the external hardware to react as quickly.

Nice video Web.

Ian

Web
09-15-2008, 10:55 PM
Thanks for making it clear, Ian.

Web

TronicGr
09-17-2008, 04:11 AM
Ian is right.

With proper external control hardware you can get motion response with no visible lag at all!!

See this video that I have made long time ago during the development of my new AVR electronics (AMC1.5):

http://rapidshare.com/files/145954008/BBF_PWM_test.wmv

Regards, Thanos