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mounty
05-23-2008, 12:39 AM
Hi,

Does anyone know of a good FSUIPC tutorial about using and setting offsets. I can't seem to find any ino on the FSUIPC site or in the documentation.

Thanks

Rob

Michael Carter
05-23-2008, 09:19 AM
I'd like to know that too because I cannot understand the manual.

oal331
05-24-2008, 01:37 AM
Hi,

Does anyone know of a good FSUIPC tutorial about using and setting offsets. I can't seem to find any ino on the FSUIPC site or in the documentation.

Thanks

Rob

Inside the downloaded zip are Fsuipc's manual with all the FS offsets. More offstes for PM are at PM's site

Eddie Armaos

mounty
05-24-2008, 01:36 PM
Hi Eddie,

Have looked at all the documentation in FSUIPC, but it doesn't tell you how to use the offsets. I know little or nothing about programming and what i've read hasn't helped at all.

Thanks

Rob

oal331
05-24-2008, 02:17 PM
Hi Eddie,

Have looked at all the documentation in FSUIPC, but it doesn't tell you how to use the offsets. I know little or nothing about programming and what i've read hasn't helped at all.

Thanks

Rob
Rob,

where do you need to programming with offsets?
Tell us which io system you gonna use to help you here with examples.

Eddie Armaos

sbecker777
05-25-2008, 12:34 AM
This isn't a tutorial on programming, but here's a really good way to use FSUIPC for CH Products yokes. http://fsuipc.simflight.com/beta/CH_Controls_with_FSUIPC.pdf

Using offsets (simply memory locations that reveal or set a parameter in FS) has to be done either 1) through a program designed to read/set them (these usually come with the interface card vendors), or 2) write a program yourself to do it.

Eddie's right, tell us what interface card setup you have and someone can help with it.

Steve

Peter Dowson
05-25-2008, 10:36 AM
Using offsets (simply memory locations that reveal or set a parameter in FS) has to be done either 1) through a program designed to read/set them (these usually come with the interface card vendors), or 2) write a program yourself to do it.

Well, though that was how it was intended, it isn't quite true.

In the drop-downs for Button and Key assignments in FSUIPC options there are "Offset ..." controls. With these you can specify an offset and a data parameter value to go with it, and get FSUIPC to "write" to that offset when you press the associated key or button.

The added Offset controls deal with whole bytes (8-bit, or 1-byte), words (16-bit or 2 byte) , or "Double words) (32bits of 4 bytes), and others, or even setting or clearing individual bits or multiple bits.

So it is possible, to some extent, to do what programs do simply by programming a button or two. Examples are actually given in the documentation for FSUIPC -- I don't know how folks here say they can't understand it. If you can fly an aircraft and understand a cockpit, using FSUIPC is a doddle, and the documentation has been developed over the 10 years as a result of user feedback. I'm sorry it is only in English, but, after all, that is actually the language of aviation, like it or not.

Incidentally, the term "offset" did originally relate to the fact that, in FS98 and before, FS's variable values were in a memory area and the "offset" was the byte address from its start. However, that became less and less the case with each subsequent release of FS, and today the offset numbers tend to be little more than "tokens" or names for the values they represent. FSUIPC has to interpret these and then go and "do the right thing", to maintain the FS98 illusion.


Regards

Pete

mounty
05-25-2008, 12:20 PM
Hi,

I'm using the latest version of FSUIPC and when I select an item in the drop down menu, there are no "offset" numbers as such, just the actions such as "Toggle Lights"

So if I understand you correctly Pete, for example Project Magenta comes with it's own offsets that are actioned thro' FSUIPC?

Thanks

Rob

Peter Dowson
05-25-2008, 12:30 PM
I'm using the latest version of FSUIPC and when I select an item in the drop down menu, there are no "offset" numbers as such, just the actions such as "Toggle Lights"
If you got to "T" for "Toggle" you went past the "Offset" controls, which all, oddly enough, begin with "O".

There are no "offset numbers" listed -- the controls are generic and can be used for any offset, which is entered in a new field which pops up when you select an offset control.

In the Advanced User's guide there is a list of all the FSUIPC-added controls (i.e. those added above what FS provides). Has no one ever though of actually looking? I evidently waste my time on such documents, and facilities, come to that. :-(


if I understand you correctly Pete, for example Project Magenta comes with it's own offsets that are actioned thro' FSUIPC?
There again, why does nobody look at the documentation provided by PM? There's a large list of FSUIPC offsets used by PM, all accessible by program or control, and all listed on the PM website (look for the strangely secretive word "documentation"). Other programs, like SA_WXR and Squawkbox, and many others, also use offsets (including FS9 PMDG programs) but they don't all publish them openly like PM.

Pete

Trevor Hale
05-25-2008, 02:37 PM
I don't know how folks here say they can't understand it. If you can fly an aircraft and understand a cockpit, using FSUIPC is a doddle, and the documentation has been developed over the 10 years as a result of user feedback.


Regards

Pete

Hey Pete,

I have to say that yes, your Documentation is complete, and 100% accurate, however I think the part that is hard for some of us (myself included) Find that although some of the documentation is quite clear and easy to read, some of the sections require you to almost be inside your head to understand.

For example. I deal with Lawyers on a daily basis, and when I read legal documents sometimes I shake my head, trying to understand the terminology and the ways of speaking.

Ie. (In the matter of an intended proceeding. ) instead of (We are going to move forward and deal with situation.)

Please understand that the Layman finds the idea of OFFSETS terrifying, even though it isn't. The best description I ever heard was describing the offset as a mailing address for information.

I think it is difficult for some people that are extremely gifted intellectually (like yourself) to not understand why some people can't understand the words you set forth in your documentation. But honestly. Give your documentation to a 18 year old working behind the counter in McDonalds, and he is going to stare at you like your from another planet.

I am sure this is one reason why you get so many people asking you questions. I am a little scared of asking for help regarding this section myself, as I am sure I am only going to get the "read the manual" speach LOL But seriously I have read your manual several times, and I am still struggling with offsets and FSUPIC.

I was fortunate enough to have Thomas Richter help me understand what I needed to know for PMSystems and my LED64, however I am terrified of using FSUPIC to directly control, any offset that isn't just "ON" or "OFF"
Only because I am just too stupid to understand your manual.

Just food for thought.. :)

Trev

Peter Dowson
05-25-2008, 02:56 PM
Please understand that the Layman finds the idea of OFFSETS terrifying, even though it isn't. The best description I ever heard was describing the offset as a mailing address for information.
I didn't invent this interface, I just continued the existing on in FS95/98 days. I think it is pretty naff, but in the name of compatibility it has remained and extended.

And the best way of thinking of an offset is simply as a NAME something has, e.g. the NAME of the value for Engine Fire is "3366". Thinking that way is much more akin to the truth of the matter these days in any case, and in fact many interfaces folks have made for it do assign worded names to offsets.


Give your documentation to a 18 year old working behind the counter in McDonalds, and he is going to stare at you like your from another planet. Yet he would be able to build his own 737 cockpit and fly it using all the controls, documented no doubt in kiddies ABC books?

I simply would expect folks who want to do complicated things to at least do a little bit of research, even just looking up the documentation provided. No one has ever had to ask me what an "offset" is, so I think you are mistaking the misunderstangs here.

Simple things should be simple to do, complex things take a little more time and thought.


I am sure this is one reason why you get so many people asking you questions.But that's just it. I don't. I used to when I started, which is why I spent so much time on documentation. And it does help those who bother to look. The questions in this thread merely showed that those who asked hadn't looked. Go read them again -- I even pointed out the Offset controls, and folks couldn't see them in the sorted drop-down list, or in the list of controls in the documentation.


But seriously I have read your manual several times, and I am still struggling with offsets and FSUPIC.Best to give up then and try SimConnect. I expect you'll find the Microsoft documentation and assistance far more professional.


Only because I am just too stupid to understand your manual.Yet you understand aircraft manuals, you can fly, you maybe even understand a bit about the theory of flight and air traffic control and navigation and so on? All those things need reading and research and thought, surely? Even experimantation? Why scared to try things which can't hurt you? I'm sorry, but this simply doesn't wash.

Pete

Trevor Hale
05-25-2008, 03:12 PM
Best to give up then and try SimConnect. I expect you'll find the Microsoft documentation and assistance far more professional.

Pete

Sorry that you took my post as a derogatory statement or as an attack. That was not the case, and to be honest, I had hopped for a little more of a friendly response.

I will be sure to find someone that will help me to understand the 16bit, words or whatever they are as my simulator progresses. As FS9 does not have Simconnect in it.

Sorry for bothering you!

Trev

Peter Dowson
05-25-2008, 05:00 PM
Sorry that you took my post as a derogatory statement or as an attack. That was not the case, and to be honest, I had hopped for a little more of a friendly response.
Sorry, but it appeared that your criticisms were not even aligned to the questions here that I was answering in the first place, but just an opportuninstic jibe. If you didn't mean it that way I apologise.


I will be sure to find someone that will help me to understand the 16bit, words or whatever they are as my simulator progresses.I have always answered specific questions when asked, but I will not undertake to give "tutorials". I am not a good teacher, as you must realise and as my children can attest to. If you have specific questions, please use my Support Forum, as published. And if you are building a cockpit I am sure you are not anywhere near as stupid as you seem to like to make out.

As for "understanding" 16 bits and so on,

1 bit = smallest unit of binary numbers, either 0 or 1
1 byte = collection of 8 bits, smallest addressable unit in current PCs.
1 word = 16 bits = 2 bytes.
1 dword or double word = 32 bits = 4 bytes

You may have heard of "32 bits" and "64 bits" in relation to versions of Windows XP and Vista -- you can get both 32-bit and 64-bit versions of these. This is based on the instruction set they are compiled with. The 64-bit instructions can address more memory (memory = collection of bytes).

I'd appreciate it in future if tech questions were actually addressed to my Support Forum, which is where I do support. If you scan the threads there you will see that questions about "offsets" are actually few and far between. I think this is because

(a) not many people need to know about them, and
(b) those that do are either programmers or cockpit builders who are not at all stupid.

Okay? That's it now. I'm out of here. If you do want to discuss this further, please come over to my place. You will be very welcome, honest.

Apologies again if I made a mistake in reading your comments.

Regards

Pete

mounty
05-25-2008, 10:24 PM
First of all, I agree 100% what Trevor said. I am no computer or programming expert and don't understand some of the language that is used. However I'm also not ignorant and did read all the documentation that FSUIPC has. I'm also a qualified pilot.

As for the individual who wants Trevor to back off, he or she could have been a little more polite and courteous. As you said Matt, Trevor has contributed a lot to this organization, and I quite agree with you that the individual not come back.

We are here to help each other and all come to the hobby with different skills and abilities and knowledge. It's all very well to say read the documentation. It's one thing to read it and another to understand it, and when wrtten by experts, they sometimes do not put themselves in the place of a computer illiterate person.

Rob

Holclo
05-26-2008, 04:36 AM
Mounty - well said. I agree with you totally.
Bill

Holclo
05-26-2008, 11:17 AM
Well done P1IC. This is a great and very friendly site. Very, very rarely(if ever) will you come across anyone being nasty.
Bill

Matt Olieman
05-26-2008, 12:48 PM
Accepted and forgotten. Thank you P1IC :)

kiek
05-26-2008, 02:17 PM
It's all very well to say read the documentation. It's one thing to read it and another to understand it, and when wrtten by experts, they sometimes do not put themselves in the place of a computer illiterate person.

Hi Rob,
(Don't get me wrong, i'm not offensive; english is not my mother tongue so I may have some difficulty to put it politely, but that''s what 'm trying to do now ...)

I'm sorry, but if you are a computer illitarate person then it will be extremely difficult to understand what FSUIPC offsets are all about, in my opinion.

A basic understanding of computers and computer programming is necessary. Otherwise you better not try using it at all. Then you better let it be transparent to you by using more user-friendly packaged panels

And even if you have some skills in computing, I have to support Pete that nowadays people often tend to forget to really read the Manual...

With reading I mean that you print it and you go and sit on the couch and you read it from the front page to the last page and back, and that 3 times, on three consecutive evenings !!!, in stead of wathing TV or surfing the internet. ;-) Read and try to grasp the meaning, study, study, study....!

I'm 55 now, and tought to and used to read manuals. In my professional ICT work I also sometimes write documentation, and with that I notice that these days people no longer seem to read Manuals, everything has to be intuitive ;-) .... :-[

I'll try to explain what an FSUIPC offset is all about:
Look at it as a Post Box. In it you can pick up a message from FSUIPC telling you that your Parking Brake in your panel has been set. Normally we use that information to control a led.

Or we could post a message in a specific box telling FSUIPC to tell FS9/X to set the Parking Brake in your aircrafts panel.

How you get and set information to Post Boxes is dependent on the Interface system that you are using (IOCards, FSBUS, Phidgets, EPIC, or buttons/key programming in FSUIPC itself, or ...) and is therefore outside the scope of Pete Dowson his documentation.

In Pete's documentation you can find all the Post Boxes (FSUIPC offsets)

You can also look at it as a interface description. With interfaces you have servers providing the interface (i.e. FSUIPC) and Clients that use the interface. It is the job of the Client programs to write tutorials about how to use the interface (not Pete's...), and normally these client programs do, but again then you have to study the documentation that comes with such programs (IOCards, FSBUS, Phidgets, ... ) well; read read and read... ;-)

Cheers,
Nico Kaan

Michael Carter
05-26-2008, 05:43 PM
Just a short note here, I believe most everyone here knows what the offset is and what it's for. We just don't know how to use them because we're not programmers.

I know my way around a computer, but that doesn't mean I sit here at night churning out code for whatever strikes my fancy. I know nothing of coding.

I guess I'll just stick with the provided drop-down interface in the program because I'll never learn this stuff without classes.

Sort of like a beginner knowing what the FMC is and what it's used for, but not knowing how to enter the data required to get it to work correctly.

michaelwc
06-11-2011, 03:03 AM
Stumbled across this old thread whilst trying solve what seems to be a simple problem. It appears that fsuipc is even easier to use than I first thought. I think that so many nrw builders fall into the same trap. Understanding how to interface the real world with the virtual one.

From a quick outline in Pete's earlier posts I can see exactly how to build a very simple panel right up to very complex one. Obviously a registered version of fsuipc is required but it appears to be worth the money; thanks Pete.

So, to answer my own earlier post: I can create a panel of push button switches with illuminated backlights. Map each button the fsuipc action and using the OC led card assign the output sioc for each action.

Thanks,
Michael